There’s this phenomenon in which cis women will start talking about how trans women are “raised with male privilege” and how this supposedly means various things. I was most recently reminded of this by mysocalledqueerlife, who wrote a post about how fraught a topic this can be and how dangerous it is to make assumptions about how trans women felt about being labeled as male. It’s worth a read.
I’ve been meaning to write for a while about how this dialogue can affect autistic women as well (and especially autistic trans women), and this round of conversation seems as good a time as any, so here goes.
In these conversations, the people who are talking about the effects of being “raised with male privilege” often see it as the root of a lot of different behaviors that they describe as “male” and therefore not belonging in women’s spaces. Things like talking a lot more than other people, or taking up physical space, or failing to use enough qualifiers like “I think…” or “I feel that…” before every sentence, or not being sufficiently “attuned” to others’ feelings.
And here I am, a cis woman, who does all of those things. And I know that that makes me unwelcome in some women’s spaces because I have been in those women’s spaces and it was clear that nobody wanted me there.
Like a lot of autistic people, I was a know-it-all as a kid. I talked ALL the time. I explained things to people, with all the authority that a kid can muster. I knew, very acutely, that was not an okay way for a girl to act. I didn’t pick up on “gentle” socialization cues all that much, but it turns out that when you keep talking more than you’re supposed to talk, people repeatedly tell you to shut up.
I got better at it, but I still talk way more than many women, and I’ve benefited from that in academics and my career since it helps me to compete with men.
I take up space sometimes. Not because I haven’t been socialized not to – in fact I’ve been explicitly reminded since childhood to take up as little space as possible – but my body doesn’t cooperate. When I’m trying to sit still, I either have to tuck my legs under me or have them kick out in various directions. My stuff sprawls all over tables and floors because I can’t easily manage it.
I lacked the module, as a kid, that apparently makes people selectively adopt mannerisms and behaviors from same-gender models. Despite feeling pretty confident that I was a girl, I picked up speech and behavior patterns from male friends or role models nearly as often as I picked them up from female friends or role models. When I’m talking under something other than my real name on the Internet, people often assume that I’m a man. I’ve heard this happens to other autistic women on the internet too.
I spent seventh through tenth grade in an all-girls’ school. It’s in women’s spaces like these that my failure to conform to various gendered expectations becomes most noticeable. Autistic people often have difficulty making friends, but I’ve (almost) never been as friendless as I was in that space.
I actually had a long period of questioning my gender identity specifically because of that experience of not-belonging in women’s spaces. I never wanted to be anything other than a woman, mind you. But this meme that only boys talk too much, only boys take up space, etc. actually was enough to make me worry that I wasn’t really a woman.
I have friends who are autistic trans women. They do all the same stuff that I do. They do this because they are autistic. It may also be true that, back when they were kids, adults didn’t tell them to shut up as much as they told me to because those adults viewed my friends as boys. But having grown up with one of these friends, I know for a fact that she was told to shut up a lot, just like I was. And that, for a variety of reasons (the fact that she was sexually abused, the fact that her parents had different personalities than mine, and the fact that she was labeled as disabled and subjected to personal-space-invading “therapies” at a younger age than I was), she was socialized to feel like she owned her body a lot less than I was.
If messaging about how only boys talk too much / take up space / talk in certain ways was enough to make me worry that I wasn’t supposed to be a woman even though I’m cis, think about what those messages can do to autistic trans women. Just think about it.
So: when you label these patterns of behavior as inherently “male” and then accuse trans women of exhibiting them in order to exclude them from women’s spaces, you are also excluding many disabled women and especially disabled trans women.
Don’t get me wrong – I get that it’s annoying to talk over people or to use a blunt tone of voice when people are talking about sensitive topics. I get why you’d want me or anyone else in the space to stop doing it. In fact, you should absolutely tell people to stop talking over other people or stepping on people’s toes. You can even tell people who persistently act this way, to the extent that others can’t participate, that they should leave. That’s part of making a safe space!
But you don’t get to make assumptions about why any given person is acting like that, and you don’t get to say that anyone who acts this way is somehow less of a woman. Heck, nondisabled cis women act like this all the time when they’re talking to people who are less privileged than they are (e.g., white women talking over women of color, nondisabled women talking over women with disabiltiies, etc.), and these are often the same women who try to argue that trans women “act privileged” and therefore shouldn’t be in women’s spaces.
Don’t be that person. Just… seriously, don’t.
I’m a year late to the party but man this is awesome.
Do you know how many dogs I’ve met that get scared or anxious around men because in their previous home men hit them? A lot, and they are very protective of the women who have adopted them now.
Men who are violent towards women are often violent towards animals as well. They think we’re all chattel. If a man wants you to choose between your dog or cat or him, dump the guy. Those animals will love you for the rest of your life, loyal and true.
Actually, I have something to add.
The other day I saw a story where a woman was asking why her dogs had suddenly started growling at her boyfriend whenever he was in the same room as her son.
And my immediate thought was ‘that boyfriend has hurt the kid somehow.’
Spoilers: that was exactly the case.
Trust ur dogs when they say something is off.
The first time my sister came to visit, via plane, after I got my dog, pupper growled at her and wouldn’t go near her for the first day. Next visit was by car (two day drive)and pupper LOVED my sister. They snuggled and played and none of us could figure out why the change. We thought maybe the scent of my sisters cat had lingered on her clothes, making that first visit a rough one. Whereas when she came by car, the scent had had time to wear off. Well that was partially true…
Fast forward about six months when I went north to visit my family. My sister walked into my parents’ house and pupper ran to greet my sister. Stopped dead in her tracks and started growling and barking. Hackles raised, full protection mode. My sisters husband had just walked in behind her.
My precious puppy wanted NOTHING to do with him. She barked, growled, ran away, and sat between him and my sister. Y’all my dog had spent maybe a weekend a half around my sister but protected her like this was her flesh and blood.
Eventually, my sister filed for divorce on grounds of “Extreme and repeated mental, emotional, and sexual abuse.” Divorce was final in less than a month because her claims were substantiated.
Trust the dog, honey. They KNOW.
I’ve never owned dogs, but I used to work with horses (which are a lot like big dogs).
There was this one horse I worked with named Tonto. He was a doll. He followed me like a puppy, snuck treats out of my pocket, he was the sweetest thing. We were practically inseparable.
A guy I was considering dating came to visit me one day, and Tonto wanted NOTHING to do with him. Normally well behaved, he shoved himself between us and would NOT let this guy near me. He was stomping, acting really aggressive, and tried to bite the guy. This horse was practically dragging me back toward the barn. At that moment, despite being like, 17, I knew something was up, and ultimately things didn’t pan out for guy and me.
A year later I found out he had lied about his age (he said he was 18 but he was actually 27) he was arrested for sexually assaulting an 11 year old girl.
If you’d like to buy a hard copy of this comic, or just want to talk to John about literally whatever because he’s super down for that, hit him up at JohnathonOLyon@gmail.com.
You can also check out John’s afterword HERE. If you want.
I drew and colored a short comic written by @johnathonolyon that @boyroland lettered, please read it, enjoy it and share it!
I’m no superhero, but this definitely hit me square in the chest.
psa: please don’t use the phrase “sexuality is fluid” because not everyone’s sexuality is fluid. instead say “sexuality can be fluid”.
yes! the whole “sexuality is fluid” or “exceptions always exist” or “everybody’s a bit bi” is harmful towards gay people (specifically lesbians) bc then many people will use this reasoning to guilt trip gay people into “just trying the opposite gender” which is Yikes
Sexuality in the aggregate is fluid.
Sexuality in the individual is what it is — whether fluid or not.
The individual is not the aggregate: remember that the mean human being has less that two legs, less than one eye, one testicle, one ovary, etc.
I’m pretty sure the mean human being has somewhere between one and two eyes.
The mean human being gets into fights a lot and loses body parts, the nice human being is polite and remains unmarred
Gather ‘round, folks. I’d like to discuss the notion of de gustibus non disputandum est. The notion that one shouldn’t argue about things that are just, like, your opinion, man.
There’s some virtue to this idea. I’m a fan of open and vigorous debate, but there are a lot of cases in which arguments around subjective taste are unproductive, and this idea can help discourage people from being judgmental and equating taste with morality or worth. In general, people shouldn’t have to expect an interrogation every time they express fondness or a particular work or individual.
However, this idea gets put to a lot of dubious uses as well. First off, one can’t use subjectivity as a defense for an objective claim. “It’s my subjective opinion that Revolutions was the coolest Matrix movie” is a coherent statement. “It’s my subjective opinion that [political issue du jour] is harmful to society” is incoherent: the notion of social harm depends on some (at least ostensibly) objective notion of social value.
In addition, the defense of pure opinion is an invocation of a norm of conversational decency. To wit, one shouldn’t give people a hard time about subjective matters. That’s all well and good, but if we’re to be at all fair we have to presume that this subjective view in question isn’t being invoked to give other people a hard time. It’s odd to say that someone who criticizes a person for saying “it’s disgusting that the Gays are allowed to walk around in public nowadays,” #killallmen,” or even “stfu idiot noob” is taking on the role of the aggressor in that conversation. (This is not to say that such criticism will necessarily be helpful or effective, but it can hardly be called unfair or uncalled-for.)
There’s necessarily a lot of wiggle room there, since intent is difficult to discern with any precision and there aren’t universally accepted norms for what qualifies as a reasonable basis for offense. Nevertheless, we can fairly say that anyone who makes an argument along the lines of “how dare you criticize me for expressing myself via open advocacy of murder, you big meanie” is either an imbecile or thinks of their audience as such.
I am, you coward. Can’t you hear me When all my reason reaches you and breaks? My senses found white wings, which ache With effort, circling around your face. Don’t see my soul, absorbed in composition? She stands before you in a silent gown, Among my prayers, which ripen, and fall down (Like rotten fruit, now putrid with contrition) Beneath your sight and past your grace.
But if you are a dreamer, then I am your dream. And should you wish to wake, I am your will And I will be the force of all your glory And like a star, I’ll circle, and seem still Above the city of fantastic time.
I’d probably translate Ängstlicher as “fearful one” rather than coward because coward has negative connotations Ängstlicher doesn’t necessarily have, and “meinen Sinnen” as “my senses” rather than reason (and Gefühle probably as feelings rather than senses).
Not sure where you got the “which ache/With effort” from? Same for the “absorbed in composition”, I’d probably translate those lines as: Don’t you see my soul, as it stands right before you in a gown of silence?
And what is with the rotten fruit and the falling. Did you decide Rilke needs to be more metal? 😛
The second paragraph is horror to translate, kudos for even trying. I’m so glad I don’t have to learn German as a second language. XD “runde mich wie eine Sternenstille” is… very poetic and I’m not sure what exactly it’s supposed to mean, I’d interpret it as Rilke arching above the fantastic city of time like … a silent starry night sky or something? (I mean, literally it’s silence of or like stars. Veeery poetic.)
As you can see, I made some edits to the poem (it’s already edited on my blog, and I’ll paste the new version below as well so I can refer to it).
I am – don’t be afraid. Can’t you hear me When all my reason reaches you and breaks? My feelings, which found wings, awake To circle around your soundless face. Don’t see my soul? She leaves so little space, Standing before you in a silent gown. Will my prayers ripen, fruitlike, or fall down Beneath your sight and past your grace?
If you are a dreamer, then I am your dream. And should you wish to wake, I am your will And I will be the force of all your glory And like a star, I’ll circle, and seem still Above the city of fantastic time.
But there’s nothing I love more than justifying my translation choices, so I’ll go through the whole thing anyway.
Ängstlicher is tough, and I waffled a lot with it, because there’s no obvious english equivalent. We don’t really refer to people as “fearful one” or “worrier,” and I thought it was important that that first line sound like natural dialogue. That note of contempt is present in the Stundenbuch, so I didn’t think it was too much of a stretch contextually, but then I realized that it’s much better to just not translate it as a noun.
Sinnen has this massive semantic scope in German and I always have a hard time figuring out what it’s supposed to be doing in context. I’m going to trust your native speaker intuition on that one.
The bit about composition is because I looked at “dicht” and assumed that it was a form of “dichten,” which it obviously is not (and which I would have noticed if I’d thought about it for more than ten seconds). Which is also the reason for the slightly tortured fruit metaphor. I really needed something there to make the rhyme scheme work. In my defense, I do think that’s the general image Rilke is going for, just infinitely more subtly.
I’m fairly certain that the last two lines actually mean something like “and I will curve myself into a rounded shape like a silent, starry night above the fantastic city of time.” There is no way to make this sound good in English. I tried. Hopefully this expresses the same general idea.
Of course, Rilke doesn’t demand literal translation. Quite the opposite. Most of the impact of his poetry comes from assonance, consonance, and metrical effects, or from his strange and vivid images. Phrases like “umkreisen weiß” or “Kleid aus Stille” or “runde mich wie eine Sternenstille” are phonically beautiful, but incongruous – and that incongruity makes the metaphor more striking. My goal was to recreate those effects in English, without necessarily relying on the exact words Rilke used in German.
But there’s nothing I love more than justifying my translation choices, so I’ll go through the whole thing anyway.
I’m very glad to hear that, was a bit afraid my nitpicking would be unwelcome 😀
We don’t really refer to people as “fearful one” or “worrier,” and I thought it was important that that first line sound like natural dialogue.
“Du Ängstlicher” doesn’t sound like natural dialogue to me either. Though who knows what sounds natural to poets, maybe it was meant to anyway.
Sinnen is really quite versatile – I’ve never really thought about that. It feels wrong to pluralize it when “reason” is meant, and “meine Sinne” definitely sounds like senses rather than some other meaning of Sinn.
You might very well know more about Rilke than I do (I know like… three of his poems), so I’ll defer to you about the fruit; there’s a lot of room for interpretation there.
Yeah, the last two lines are definitely something curvy. 😛 I think the original transports a sense of “size” the translation doesn’t – there’s less motion and more of a feeling of endlessness there that doesn’t really fit the motion of circling somehow. But diverging from literal translations in poems and songs is definitely a valid choice – there’s just too much going on there to keep /everything/, so choices must be made anyway.
Omphaloskeptomai 